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Arkanons News Item on the recent allegations of developer misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:49:00 - [1] Originally by: Valan I've come to the conclusion Goons, BoB and CCP between them are doing their best to wreck this game for everyone else. This is the core point of this entire mess. Since these three groups seem to be in bed together, and constitute a large portion (?) of activity in the game right now... us little people are the ones sitting on the sidelines wondering if the entire game is corrupt and worth playing. CCP needs to realize that they are very quickly losing street cred (Digg, Slashdot, IGN) over crap like this. I know of 4 co-workers that will not even look at this game because of the bad press it is getting, both last time and this time. I know 5 players who have left because of events like this, specifically. If crap like this keeps happening, it wouldn't be unthinkable that people will start leaving in droves... if they aren't already.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:07:00 - [2] Originally by: Captain Howdy001 will some one please post what happend! It has been posted and discussed/explained ad nauseum. Read the thread for yourself.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Aries Acheron Question: Was Orange Species joking about 'having Bob on the MSN'? Anyone have any evidence aside from an off-hand remark he made? Whether he was joking or not, the "coincidental" chain of events leading to the banning of the ISD volunteer seem suspect. But judging from other commentary from BoB players about being friends with the Devs and QA people, I for one believe that yes, they do have out-of-game inroads to official CCP employees that others do not have. I don't know if CCP can ever "prove" anything now, since public opinion is firmly entrenched (45 pages of posts later)... so we may never know.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 09:18:44 Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 09:10:13 fact: goonswarm will sensationalize anything they can to further their agenda (edit to add: in this game or any other) you can cut the political rhetoric in this thread w/ a knife It is quite clear to many people following this fiasco that this is clearly a large part of metagaming propogandizing by BoB/Goon. They are publicizing this in order to draw attention for their own personal reasons. We get that. But it is also irrelevant, so you can stop trying to divert the focus. This does not change the "fact" that the events uncovered and publicized are very detrimental to the community of the game. A large portion of players are rather torqued off right now and either leaving, considering leaving, or whatever. The bottom line is that the respectability of this game has seriously dropped after the combination of the "T20" episode and now this. Sites like IGN, Slashdot and Digg are following this thread, and public opinion is shifting against Eve/CCP. That means, political rhetoric or metagaming propoganda or not, this game is in jeopardy of losing subscriptions, either current or potential because of loss of respectability. Get over the BoB vs Goon aspect of the argument. Some players are so close to this crap that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Avrunath Why dont you guys just fight your f***ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else? /signed
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:39:00 - [6] Originally by: R0ger Wilco I sincerely hope CCP learn a hard lesson from this and that the poo really hits the fan. A thought occurs. What if everyone that is concerned about this didn't log in for a while? Do you think CCP would take it seriously? Maybe see the impact it might be having on the game as a community? Because without showing CCP a measure of resolve, a player strike of sorts, then there is no 'hard lesson' to be learned. This is the second time these allegations have arose, and while they are investigating it, the outcry and upset/interest seems to be much higher this time.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:55:00 - [7] A wise man once said that when you have to resort to personal attacks, you have realized that you have lost the argument and simply cannot debate on the same intellectual level any further.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Mortania Edited by: Mortania on 26/05/2007 09:55:21 That guy was an idiot. edit: HAHA! Nice one. Intellectual humor. Gotta love it!
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 09:57:37 Originally by: New Hampshire What strikes me is that these allegations (at least some of which, T20, have been admitted and are therefore no longer mere allegations) of employee misconduct appear to always revolve around BoB, which just happens to be arguably the most successful alliance in the game. I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. Ever wonder why it's always the people fighting BoB (and losing) that come up with the allegations? I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. While that may have been intended as tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, you have just proven the point made by the first poster.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:21:00 - [10] I dunno... I just can't see past all of the accusations to be able to say "must be a coincidence". Judging from the commentary out on the Net about this, I'm thinking I'm not alone here. So, BoB players can defend and attempt to deflect the points that many here are trying to make... but it doesn't change the fact that the points are being made. And not disputed. Oh, and it's great that BoB is happy with the game as it is. But do the rest of us get to pressure CCP into forming/enforcing a policy much like some sort of anti-monopoly measure? Because I think many people would agree that the power of BoB's apparent leverage (both IC and OOC) leaves any sort of opposition far behind. At what point does CCP decide that one entity in the game is too powerful and acts to curtail that entity using the game's theme to check them? At what point do the Empire factions take note of this massive territory under one flag and start to view it as a threat. Not to mention the NPC corporations that live in the spaces that BoB is taking over? Therein lies the apparent conflict of interest. The very people responsible for same game theme balance and enforcement have been accused of being part of these corruption allegations. So what is a normal, non-involved player to think?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 10:42:24 disregard
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 12:02:45 Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/05/2007 11:59:50 Originally by: Murkelost Lets move the battle in game or is forum warfare the new thingy? No limit to human stupidity, it's been said millions of times over and over again, read and repeat: THIS IS NOT ABOUT BOB THIS IS ABOUT SOME OF THE DEV TEAM MEMBERS VIOLATING THEIR POWER LIMITS This actually makes sense, BH, if you consider for a moment that it is possible that this is an upset/defensive/***ed dev posting "in character". dons tinfoil hat*
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Smith Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB. How has my being in BoB got anything to do with this? Wow. Just.... wow. Never mind. Apparently the 50+ pages of posts before mine didn't clarify the issue sufficiently to make my snarky comment painfully obvious.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:14:00 - [15] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 12:14:13 Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate An ISD member potentially bumps a BOB ship, that is not engaged in combat, so it has no relevance to the gameplay. Clumsy? yes, did it have any effect on the game? No. Result: ISD fired by what seems like a direct order from BOB. (Bold emphasis mine.) I had wondered if they were even engaged and/or aligned. Posts/letters make it sound like they were rallying to move out to another system, possibly to a fight. And they erupted on Local with screaming at this ISD fellow. Over what, a bump? He gets fired for bumping a non-aligned/non-engaged ship?! Is that factual?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and start screaming demands at him to leave. When that doesn't work, they call in their dev friends to have him forcibly ejected not only from the system, but from his 'job' in the game and banlock all of his accounts. There, fixed that for you. Yeah, you're right. Banning for a bump? Hell, that's definately not retribution or escalation. Thanks for clearing that up for us little people.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and start screaming demands at him to leave. When that doesn't work, they call in their dev friends to have him forcibly ejected not only from the system, but from his 'job' in the game and banlock all of his accounts. There, fixed that for you. Yeah, you're right. Banning for a bump? Hell, that's definately not retribution or escalation. Thanks for clearing that up for us little people. If I read the information provided correctly (this is the logs leaked by goons), he was banned for not following ISD procedures, i.e. that he is not supposed to in any way interfere in how EVE is played when using his ISD account. No argument there. However, the guy clearly didn't act like someone who realized that he was interfering with how EVE is played. Do you get that impression from the logs? I don't. He was flat-out surprised by the questioning at first, the conversation with his boss shows that. The banning was injury atop insult. BoB mimes calling a Dev + Dev/CCP shows up and starts berating ISD guy for "interfering" in a non-combat gathering = Suspicious interaction in my book.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:45:00 - [18] Okane, I think people are upset because they are seeing the little man behind the curtain. Some people have invested hundreds of dollars in their characters, and now see no reason to continue or to trust CCP or the Devs or to not see conspiracy everywhere they turn. In short, the magic, the trust and the hope is gone in many.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Thomas Torquemada In short i do honestly believe 99.9% of CCP dont want this stuff to happen and id hope wouldnt let it, their core problem is recruiting "helpers" from the core playerbase, thats where these problems arise, giving power to people who already influence the game. I think most people here would agree with you, even begrudgingly. It is the isolated incidents of this sort of thing happening, however, that tear apart good things. Look at real world political scandals that take down leaders of corporations, countries, governments. These "small things" can have huge impact. Go out and read what sites like Slashdot, IGN are saying. Eve does not have a good, solid standing in the eyes of many gamers because of past issues, and now this happens. Proof or not, truth or not, this is going to have big ripple effects for all players of the game.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Kerfira Maybe he was surprised or maybe he was a good actor... We'll never know exactly what was going on, and the forum is (even at best of times and this certainly isn't) not a good source of information. I see little, if any, PROOF in these 50+ pages of any misconduct by anyone. I certainly see things CCP needs to look into, but this being a holiday weekend I understand why it might take them a while.. I see lots of accusations, and a lot of people jumping to conclusions without any real facts to base them on though.... Modern day lynch-mob ftw!!! Lynch-mobs are effective when there is no process in place for impeachments or recall votes or whatever the real world political equivalent you want to use. I think the core of the issue is that there seems to be a clear connection, to the point of players being able to get staffers fired with a single message to a well-placed CCP employee. Even if it is only 50% truth and 50% embellishment, I think that is a problem. From what I am reading from others, this bothers other players too. I've already said that, from a neutral standpoint, the whole BoB vs Goon FUD needs to be ignored and the core complaints/issues need to be addressed. The extenuating circumstances shouldn't matter when you are talking about a breach of policy of any sort. Every breach should be investigated and handled the same way. I think it is a problem that a BoB player makes a "single call" and gets a person fired, no questions asked. The Admiral ISD player didn't even get a second side of the story, just started going off on the ISD reporter player. That is unprofessional team management, and in the real world would invite trouble in a brick and mortar company.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Smith Its a shame our enemies lack this level of passion ingame. See you in NOL in 3 weeks everyone? This isn't directed solely at Smith, but is a reaction to most of the posts by BoB players in this thread: Is anyone else put off by the level of glee exhuded by these guys over this?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:44:00 - [22] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Orange Species This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" I see where you're coming from orange, next thing you know they'll be saying something like the devs are giving bob free t2 bpos or some other nonsense. I dont understand why CCP dont silence anyone who thinks bob are cheats. /vote best post in thread.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 13:46:05 Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13 It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left. So people who criticise have no intelligence? Attacking the poster instead of the issue is the lowest form of debate (Oh yeah? Well..... you're stupid!). Let them. It shows their maturity level.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: RaYaa I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... Can i have your stuffs? For some strange reason I really hate this saying.. maybe because every r3tard in this game thinks it's his duty to say it? /signed

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